Rex Tillerson meets with Foreign Minister Lavrov and President Putin

 


THE SAKER  } DATELINE APRIL 11, 2017  | WITH SELECT COMMENTS FROM ORIGINAL THREADS
horiz grey line


Finally, they met.  Rex Tillerson spent several hours speaking with Foreign Minister Lavrov and, after that, with President Putin.  Tillerson  and Lavrov then held a rather bizarre joint press conference in which Tillerson mantrically repeated all the nonsense we are now used to hear about Russia while Lavrov logically demolished each US argument one by one.  I suppose I could discuss the entire press conference word by word, but it wasn’t that interesting and, besides, I expect Tillerson to suffer from the “Kerry syndrome”: being on his best behavior while in Moscow only to turn rabid again as soon as he is back in DC.  Still, those interested can read the full transcript of the press confence here.

Let me just summarize why, all in all, this trip is not bad news (can’t quite call it “good news” either)

For one thing – when two superpowers are talking to each other they are usually trying to avoid an escalation.  Second, Tillerson met with Putin.  If Tillerson had come to Moscow just to deliver the usual torrent of threats and accusations he would not have been seen by Putin (or, for that matter, by Lavrov).  This means that something of some substance was discussed.  Not agreed upon, but at least discussed.  Third, while both parties admitted that they had plenty of differences, they did signal that they wanted an improvement in relations.  I think that the following sentence by Tillerson is absolutely crucial:

I expressed the view that the current state of U.S.-Russia relations is at a low point and there is a low level of trust between our two countries. The world’s two foremost nuclear powers cannot have this kind of relationship.

I fully understand that coming from somebody most likely already infected with the “Kerry Syndrome” this might not be much.  But, friends, this is better than nothing!

Please get me right: I am so horrified by the rabid insanity of the Trump administration that at this point I will be grateful to God “just” if there is not direct war between the USA and Russia.  That is the only thing I still hold some hope for.  Because other than that, the picture is very, very gloomy.

In prototypical Neocon-style, the Americans have completely painted themselves into a corner.  They have made SO MANY frankly stupid statements about Syria and Assad that they simply cannot backtrack any more.  Just like there is exactly ZERO chance that the Americans will ever accept an independent and honest investigation into what really happened during the latest chemical incident (I don’t call it an “attack” because I am not even sure that there was an attack).  This is like 9/11 – there is NO WAY the US Nomenklatura will EVER allow an independent investigation into that event either.  They are fully committed.  They cannot go back now.


“They all agreed that going to nuclear war was simply something which no US President would ever do.  One of them put it simply “we are not going to trade Boston for Munich”.  They were all patriots, but they knew crazy when they saw it and war between the USA and the USSR is a crazy, civilization ending, idea…”


I often get the feeling that the Americans, knowing full well how wrong they are, often deliberately paint themselves into a corner just to be in a way “protected from reality” by being stuck; in a way, that makes them almost immune to fact-based and logical arguments.  Whatever may be the case, Russia and the USA will not work together in Syria.  And that means that the entire idea of the USA defeating Daesh is dead in the water forever.  Russia and Iran might help the Syrians push Daesh out of most of Syria, but even that will not ‘defeat’ Daesh in a meaningful way.  Furthermore, I have come to the conclusion that Israel has played a key role in the coup against Trump and that Israel will now do everything in its power to keep Daesh fighting for as long as possible (more about that in my next analysis next week).  Daesh could most definitely be crushed by a joint US-Russian effort.  Now, thanks to Trump, Daesh has a brand new lease on life.  Well done, Donald!


Gen. ‘Buck’ Turgidson (George C Scott) the warmongering general in Kubrick’s farce Dr Strangelove. “Maybe 20 million casualties, tops!”

So here is what is happening: the Trump policy, if you want to call it that, towards the war in Syria was delivered stillborn.  The Americans themselves killed it with their fantastically stupid aggression against Syria and the “sarin gas” fairly tale they used as a pretext.  Trump has been completely neutered, his “Mad Dog” will bark a lot but get nothing done, as for McMaster – he can go right back on writing more of the kind of strategy documents which got the US Army defeated pretty much everywhere.

That is option one.

Option two is infinitely worse: the crazies keep on doubling-down and we have WWIII.  I prefer option one.  This is why I think that the Tillerson to Moscow is a success: it moves the planet just a little closer to option one and a little further way from option two.

At this point in time, this is all we can still hope for: that the spineless imbeciles who run the USA today do not trigger WWIII.  If they somehow manage NOT to trigger WWIII in the next four years, we will still owe them an immense debt of gratitude for that (even if we despise everything else they will no doubt do next).

One more thing: make no mistake – the situation today is far more dangerous than the Cuban missile crisis.

During the Cold War both sides were ruled by rational men.  Not necessarily kind men, but fundamentally rational men.  It was self-evident for everybody involved that you could never, ever, take the risk of a real nuclear war breaking out.  There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that the Soviets never had any intention of invading western Europe.  But IF they had done so, there is also no doubt in my mind that the USA would never have escalated to the level of strategic nuclear weapons.  I have known plenty of senior US officers, ranging Navy intelligence officers, to senior analysts of the Office of Net Assessment, to officers who worked on the YF-22/23 program to one member of the Joint Chiefs.  They all agreed that going to nuclear war was simply something which no US President would ever do.  One of them put it simply “we are not going to trade Boston for Munich”.  They were all patriots, but they knew crazy when they saw it and war between the USA and the USSR is a crazy, civilization ending, idea.

Nowadays we clearly have already two US administrations—OBAMA/CLINTON AND TRUMP’S—which are willing to engage into what I call a “game of nuclear chicken” with Russia because they are too stupid to realize that Russia will not back down when cornered (and she is cornered in both the Ukraine and Syria) and that Russia can simply wipe the entire USA off the face of the earth (and the USA can do likewise to Russia).  When I hear of the notion of imposing a no-fly zone over Syria against the will of Russia I get a knot in my stomach because I fully understand where this could lead.

This is much worse than the Cuban missile crisis and it will, alas, last much longer.

I hope and pray that Tillerson will not completely forget his words about  two foremost nuclear powers cannot have this kind of relationship when he comes back to DC and that he will find the courage in himself to repeat these words when faced with the hysterical crowds demanding blood in Congress, in the US Ziomedia and in the Executive Branch swamp.

As for Trump, let him get his foreign policy advice from Ivanka just like Clinton got his from Hillary.  The damage is already done.  Now they both belong to the same trash heap of history.

—The Saker


SELECT COMMENTS


  1. During the Cold War there also were such crazies in the US leadership that though they could win a nuclear war against Russia to create “a postwar world order compatible with Western values”.

    Top Air Force Official Told JCS in 1971: “We Could Lose Two Hundred Million People [in a Nuclear War] and Still Have More Than We Had at the Time of the Civil War”
    http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/nukevault/ebb580-JCS-chairmans-diary-from-1971-reveals-high-level-deliberations/

    “Victory is Possible
    by Colin S. Gray and Keith Payne

    If American nuclear power is to support U.S. foreign policy objectives, the United States must possess the ability to wage nuclear war rationally.

    Surely no one can be comfortable with the claim that a strategy that would kill millions of Soviet citizens and would invite a strategic response that could kill tens of millions of U.S. citizens would be politically and morally acceptable. However, it is worth recalling the six guidelines for the use of force provided by the “just war” doctrine of the Catholic Church: Force can be used in a just cause; with a right intent; with a reasonable chance of success; in order that, if successful, its use offers a better future than would have been the case had it not been employed; to a degree proportional to the goals sought, or to the evil combated; and with the determination to sparre noncombatants, when there is a reasonable chance of doing so.

    Small, preplanned strikes can only be of use if the United States enjoys strategic superiority — the ability to wage a nuclear war at any level of violence with a reasonable prospect of defeating the Soviet Union and of recovering sufficiently to insure a satisfactory postwar world order.

    The United States should plan to defeat the Soviet Union and to do so at a cost that would not prohibit U.S. recovery. Washington should identify war aims that in the last resort would contemplate the destruction of Soviet political authority and the emergence of a postwar world order compatible with Western values.

    Strategists cannot offer painless conflicts or guarantee that their preferred posture and doctrine promise a greatly superior deterrence posture to current American schemes. But, they can claim that an intelligent U.S. offensive strategy, wedded to homeland defenses, should reduce U.S. casualties to approximately 20 million, which should render U.S. strategic threats more credible. If the United States developed the targeting plans and procured the weapons necessary to hold the Soviet political, bureaurcratic, and military leadership at risk, that should serve as the functional equivalent in Soviet perspective of the assured-destruction effect of the late 1960s.”
    http://home.earthlink.net/~platter/articles/80-summer-payne.html

    • When they speak of “western values” I prepare to hear or read something really heinous.

      Reply:

      “Western values” has always been code (on the lips of establishment figures) for capitalism and imperialism. The rule of the global corporate class.

       

      • I’m tempted to say that Auschwitz epitomises really existing ‘Western Moral Values’, but on reconsideration I think that the genocides of the Indigenous in the New Worlds, the genocides of the Great Famines in India under English rule, and the hundreds of millions of ‘excess deaths’ caused by the US-imposed ‘Washington Consensus’ of neo-liberal neo-imperialist Market Capitalism take the prize.

      • paul : “When they speak of “western values” I prepare to hear or read something really heinous. ”

        In Finland they are using day after day the jargon: “a community of values ” which means that we Finns should sleep in same bed with USA, Israel, Saudis, ISIS and Al Nusra. Personally i prefer sharing the same bed with my dear wife.

        • According to legend, Ghandi was once asked what he thinks of Western civilization? He responded with “I think it would be a very good idea.”

    • Dr. Strangelove doesn’t seem very strange any more. That could be a problem.

      Turgidson: Mr. President, we are rapidly approaching a moment of truth, both for ourselves as human beings and for the life of our nation. Now, truth is not always a pleasant thing. But it is necessary now to make a choice, to choose between two admittedly regrettable, but nevertheless distinguishable, post-war environments: one where you got 20 million people killed, and the other where you got 150 million people killed!
      Muffley: You’re talking about mass murder, General, not war.
      Turgidson: Mr. President, I’m not saying we wouldn’t get our hair mussed, but I do say no more than 10 to 20 million killed, tops! Uh, depending on the breaks.
      Muffley: I will not go down in history as the greatest mass murderer since Adolf Hitler.
      Turgidson: Perhaps it might be better, Mr. President, if you were more concerned with the American people, than with your image in the history books.

      • LOL … I watch that movie at least once a year now. And while reading to this point, I was tempted to go find that exact clip and post it.

        Of course, Mr. Kubrick got his inspiration for the 1964 movie from real life. An air force general named Curtis Lemay was supposedly the inspiration for Kubrick’s General. LeMay was one of the advisors trying to convince Pres. Kennedy that a pre-emptive nuclear attack on the Soviet Union was how he should respond to the missiles in Cuba.

        • Years of Zionist “Strangelove’ advisors to US Presidents, Kissinger, Wolfowitz, Frum, have resulted in a very limited state of mental hygiene in Washington Regime ruling classes. Irony died the day General Craig Breedlove became head of NATO.

  2. Mr. Saker,

    Do not fear. We will prevail.

    Whether you know it or not, there are some very powerful metaphysical forces which now work in our favor.

    The events that occur over the next several years will surprise all of us in a most entertaining and mind-blowing fashion, despite all of the danger and horrible things that will come along with it…

    WW3 will be avoided, and the Neocons will have their day in the great court of humanity where they will be tried and sentenced for their crimes…

    -geoff

    • At first I had a feeling Trump was weak and controlled or corrupt and want to do harm. But now I am getting a slight sense that Trump could be strong, very strong. He wont be the guy we all hope for that will abolish NATO and And is dominating all sides in the white house, yes, after the chemical attack, he did attack Syria, but it was extremely limited and cause no strategic harm to the Syrian government or its military, and Russia was warned which means Syria was warned, so basically he did the absolute minimum. But what he did was correct in the eyes of the american people 60%+ support it and 40% want a ground war, so here Trump is actually less extreme then the average americans, Trump has also come out and said he will not invade Syria not launch a massive attack but only strike Syria when it uses chemical weapons. So he is not some neocon nutter looking for an excuse to invade Syria, he is just being a strong man. Of course, I could be wrong and he could invade Syria tomorrow, but this is as the situation is now.

      As regards to China there are rumours that Trump has tamed “the Chinese dictator,” talk about China agreeing to take out the NK government togheter with Trump, what is being said is that China and USA has delivered an ultimatum to NK, to stop this nuclear test, and if it is not stopped, China approves of USA bombing and destroying North Korea, China would then move in its own troops to restore order and install a controllable pro-Chinese government. This way everyone remains happy, China gets too keep its buffer against South Korea, S koreah and Japan and USA wont need to live under nuclear threat. Some will say that NK is China and Russia ally but this is not true, in truth NK is a huge pain for both Russia and China, as NK does what it want and it constant talks of nukes gives NATO an excuse to build up military forces and place missiles in that area, just outside Russia and Chinas border. Both China and Russia would benefit greatly from a docile Chinese puppet in NK instead of a fat nuclear dictator. Who also runs his country horrendously badly. Of course any USA attack on NK will likely cause tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of deaths, as NK will unleash all they got on USA and SK. But it might be worth it for China as most of the attacks will land on SK, and it might be worth if for Japan for the same reason and it will certainly be worth if for USA as they need to take out NK before they get missiles good enough to hit mainland USA where they can kill millions in one hit with a thermonuclear weapons, the only country that has a problem is South Korea that will get most of the hits, but they likely dont have a vote in the matter. This is between China and USA.

      Trump has also announced that NATO is no longer obsole after they agree to be re-geared towards fighting terrorism.

      And now Tillerson has meet with Putin and Lavrov, and things doesnt seem to have gone that bad, Trump might have made some real offering to Russia about Ukraine. Which of course is Russia most important issue. Trump might not be a weak puppet or a had bad intentions from the start, he might just be very strong, and be determined to restore USA power and solve most of the problems the globalist has put USA into. Solve the Ukrainian situation, solve the Syrian situation and solve the NK situation. Trump might be trying to keep USA as an empire, but not as an empire of destruction. As before, the opposite, Trump wants to fix all the international issues so USA can continue to dominate, In doing so he will make deals and carry out actions that will make no one happy but no one angry either. Bombing Syria seems like a perfect example of this, he shows who is boss, but he does not create more trouble.

      • Of course any USA attack on NK will likely cause tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of deaths, as NK will unleash all they got on USA and SK. But it might be worth it for China as most of the attacks will land on SK, and it might be worth if for Japan for the same reason and it will certainly be worth if for USA as they need to take out NK before they get missiles good enough to hit mainland USA where they can kill millions in one hit with a thermonuclear weapons, the only country that has a problem is South Korea that will get most of the hits, but they likely dont have a vote in the matter. This is between China and US.

        The infamous 500, 000 dead children was ‘ worth it’ from the psychopathic Mad Albright comes to mind…

        I take it you don’t live in SK?

        ( shudders)

      • This of course has been the question on everybody’s mind: Is Trump indeed the idiot he looks and sounds or is he a 5D chess-player with some spectacular ninja skills rarely seen outside the world of Japanese anime.

        When Trump had the guts to call Politburo’s official propaganda outlet CNN ‘Fake news!’ I mistook that as a sign that Trump not only was able to read, but was also capable to spot the difference between up and down, warm and cold, right and wrong.

        Little did I know that Trump was so upset by ‘fake news’ only because the little bit he knows about world events comes exclusively from fake news sources and hoax Youtube videos.

        Was it Einstein or Gandhi who said: “Beware of an idiot president who dreams of draining the swamp”?

        • Trump has apparently demoted and removed from the NSC the one guy he had in his corner who could have played 5D chess. I’m referring to Mr. Bannon of course. Towards the end of the campaign, Trump seemed to improve as a candidate because he had some smart advisors around him and during the last few weeks actually listened to them.

          Now it seems like Trump has returned to the form of earlier in the campaign when he was just a big-mouthed fool firing off tweats.

          Reply: Bannon was no great brains himself. Crazy idiotic ideas, too.





Why contributing to the Greanville Post is urgent and makes sense.

CLICK ON THIS BAR AND FIND OUT





LEGAL DISCLAIMER NOTE. CLICK HERE.


horiz-long grey

uza2-zombienationWhat will it take to bring America to live according to its own self image?


black-horizontal

Share This:

More in AMERICAN BRAINWASH, AMERICAN DUPLICITY, AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM, AMERICAN PARTY DUOPOLY, ROTTEN GOVERNMENTS, RUSSIA DESK, WORLD DESK, ZIONCONS
Trump is not America’s real problem

Crossposted with Pravda.ru } 10.02.2017 Trump is the logical conclusion of the Worldwide War on Terror, US wars of aggression in...

Close