Comments for The Greanville Post • Vol. VIII All captions, well-deserved insults, and pull quotes provided by the editors, not the authors. Mon, 15 Sep 2014 19:18:01 +0000 hourly 1 Comment on Listening to Lavrov giving up on the West by SELECT COMMENTS Mon, 15 Sep 2014 19:18:01 +0000 SELECT COMMENTS FROM ORIGINAL THREAD
David Chu said...
Excellent analysis of this very recent ‘pivot’ in tone and words by Russia. I had to read and reread and reread Lavrov’s recent comments as their reflect a complete change as least outwardly and verbally:

This whole sage course was more or less precipitated or more correctly accelerated after what I called “The Pivot of the Century”:

This is not going to end with some “happy endings”.

The “Axis of the Righteous” (USUKIsrael and their All-Lies) cannot back down as they are collapsing financially, economically and morally.

Russia already has shown its willingness to use tactical nukes in Georgia 2008. This was something that was not reported in the Western media as they moved a few of their tactical nukes into Georgia in August 2008 as a “clear and present warning” to USNATOIsrael NOT to get involved with or without their “smart weapons”.

So, Saker or the Russian person is 100% correct that if that 10,000 or 20,000 or 30,000 USNATO Rapid Response Force is going to do any attacking against Russians or Russian forces, they will be nuked with one or two nuclear missles.

14 SEPTEMBER, 2014 17:08
Serendipity said…
The Saker said:

Russia is turning away from the West again and betting her future with Asia (and the rest of the planet).

And not a moment too soon.

Let the AngloZionist Empire rot.

14 SEPTEMBER, 2014 17:25
Anonymous said…
That is certainly the right policy.I’ve always thought Russia should be making many of the products they import.And develop her trade with the East.But still we have the Ukraine crisis to be dealt with.Today the Ukies shelled Donetsk market and surrounding villagers fled their burning homes.At least 20 civilians are dead and 24 injured.In Luhansk thousands turned out for a City Day concert and praised Russia at it.As it was ending the Ukies also shelled that city.Though no one was hurt.Ceasefire or no fake ceasefire the Ukie guns must be driven away from those cities or those people can’t ever feel safe.

14 SEPTEMBER, 2014 17:30
Abdelnour said…
I bet that the “International Community” is going to find itself very isolated in a not so distant future.
Sounds terrible to think, but maybe a few years of economic misery and hardship is what is needed to change the mentalities in the West, and through that its leadership and its politics. Learn humility and find the way to the return of old true values.
If Jesus son of Mary (God bless) came back today I have no doubt the western people would be unanimous in crucifying him.

14 SEPTEMBER, 2014 17:31
Elena said…
Hope it will shake off few Al antiputin oligarchs successfully with this move as well and build up its own technology and farming not just depending on China as it was depending on EU
China could be tricky with changes as well
14 SEPTEMBER, 2014 17:34
Passer by said…
I wonder why it took you so long to come to this conclusion.

As i said, it is enough to listen to western elites and think tanks for only several minutes to understand this.

Not to mention that Europe today is not Europe from 10 years ago.
This is not Europe of Gerhard Schröder and Jacques Chirac.

France has rejoined NATO and now intends to work with the US for interventions in Africa and the Middle East.

The balance of Europe has also changed, now it is more russophobic due to the embrace of the eastern europeans by the EU.

And the german policy appears to be “drang nach osten” for cheap labour and resources in Eastern Europe.

14 SEPTEMBER, 2014 17:39
Anonymous said…

14 SEPTEMBER, 2014 17:41
Erebus said…
Well Saker, judging by the length of your post, and the resignation in its message, “unimportant” is not the first word that comes to mind. It may be the public announcement of the “watershed moment” for Lavrov himself, Russia, and the world going forward.

Throwing the keys over the fence and walking away may be anti-climactic, but it is the last page in a chapter being turned.

I strongly suggest that this is a candidate for translation, at least in excerpted form.


14 SEPTEMBER, 2014 17:46
Anonymous said…

Many thanks to the Saker for another informative and timely analysis.

Sergei Lavrov is another impressive political leader from Russia. Of course, our planet is small enough, and the Russian government’s closer cooperation with China and the rest of Asia and Latin America represents a natural balancing of its political and economic options. Eventually, Europeans will gain their independence from the US/Zionist military financial empire (which is in decline), and restore their relations with Russia.

Speaking of the West, and specifically the United States, one has just to look at Camden NJ, Detroit MI, and a hundred other heartland cities in America, to understand the terrible gutting of America by its owners. These cities are depopulated, with vacant lots where houses once stood and communities once thrived. Detroit, and Camden, appear to have lost a war.

Within America, prosperous employment and useful education and a Democratic Republic has been replaced by, record unemployment, a huge gulag prison system with 3 million prisoners, gambling and blood sports; a poor education of bare literacy, and a totalitarian Oligarch controlled political circus, which sports 2 twin political gangs, who, as in Professional Wrestling, pretend to fight, but do exactly as they are told.

Within the belly of the beast we have circulated, the IMAGINE flier in an effort to rouse opposition to the Oligarchs, who have caused such damage at home and abroad.

* will post IMAGINE flier separately

Peter J. Antonsen

Comment on Ripping Off the Mask of Fake Democracy by JW Symonds Thu, 11 Sep 2014 12:40:32 +0000 The yoke of political ignorance for the Americans will not be lifted until the American left learns how to effectively counteract the system’s torrent of disinformation. We need original thinkers in this area. I presume with so many new technologies something could be done to puncture the brainwash. People around the world, as the article points out, die by the millions as a result of this ignorance. The American mind, and then the similarly anesthetised European mind, need to wake up to the imposture.

JW Symonds
The Cotswolds

Comment on Ripping Off the Mask of Fake Democracy by hadrian2 Wed, 10 Sep 2014 12:09:32 +0000 As a native of the “Southern Cone,” comprising Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Chile, I was a witness of the American state’s “tender mercies” described in the lucid review above and the subject of M. Vltchek’s book. This kind of book should be obligatory reading in every American high school, not to mention college, yet I am willing to bet no less than 95% of all students of all ages go through the US “educational “system without ever hearing about such atrocities and hypocrisies committed by “their” government in the name of democracy and freedom—the pablum of the American population.

Sad and infuriating to see that the horrors that M Vltchek describes have not disappeared, and that as the case of Iraq, Libya, and now Eastern Ukraine, illustrate, the US/EU mafia is still out to enslave the world behind heavy sanctimonious propaganda and highfalutin slogans. The below, from the Wikipedia page you mention in the article is worth including in this discussion:

On 5 October 1976 Henry Kissinger met with Argentina’s Foreign Minister and stated:

“ Look, our basic attitude is that we would like you to succeed. I have an old-fashioned view that friends ought to be supported. What is not understood in the United States is that you have a civil war. We read about human rights problems but not the context. The quicker you succeed the better… The human rights problem is a growing one. Your Ambassador can apprise you. We want a stable situation. We won’t cause you unnecessary difficulties. If you can finish before Congress gets back, the better. Whatever freedoms you could restore would help.[178] ”
The US was also a key provider of economic and military assistance to the Videla regime during the earliest and most intense phase of the repression. In early April 1976, the US Congress approved a request by the Ford Administration, written and supported by Henry Kissinger, to grant $50,000,000 in security assistance to the junta.[179] At the end of 1976, Congress granted an additional $30,000,000 in military aid, and recommendations by the Ford Administration to increase military aid to $63,500,000 the following year were also considered by congress.[180] US assistance, training and military sales to the Videla regime continued under the successive Carter Administration up until at least 30 September 1978 when military aid was officially called to a stop within section 502B of the Foreign Assistance Act.

Comment on • NATO, Spearhead of Western Fascism by TGP STAFF Tue, 09 Sep 2014 18:46:48 +0000 A tiger is 100 times preferable to a cold-blooded hypocrite and murderer, which our “Western democratic” heads of state represent. With a tiger at least you know where you stand. Obviously you lack the balls to sign your own name to this scurrilous comment.

Comment on • NATO, Spearhead of Western Fascism by K Tue, 09 Sep 2014 02:17:50 +0000 You make Putin out like he is an ordinary house cat. He is not. Once a tiger will always be a tiger.

Comment on Contacting Us by Lanny Cotler Fri, 05 Sep 2014 19:53:29 +0000 It amazes me how the progressive left can nitpick itself to death. We divide ourselves over details and thus allow the regressive right to sweep past us with what appears to be a united front.

Chomsky is not the enemy, nor is he an adversary to a positive future. He expresses what he sees uniquely, as you and so many other articulate progressives do. Why do you, John Gray, and so many others waste your time with “in-fighting”?

Gray wrote: “The picture Chomsky presents of the US is, in effect, a negative version of exceptionalism. For him as much as for the neocons, America is the centre of the world. Chomsky views global politics through the same Manichean lens: you are either for America or against it. The fact that much of humankind has aspirations that have nothing to do with America is not even considered.”

Chomsky is not a “self-hating American”. He is a potent warrior, however, against the policies of those who control the American political world, here and abroad.

The term “American Exceptionalism” is loaded. For the most part, it is indeed a negative force. _For the most part!_

He is not Manichean regarding America the country; but he is black-or-white regarding American foreign policy. How can any sane universalist not be?!!

American progressive pundits must stop being Manichean in terms of their own narrow vision of what is acceptable dissidence. Chomsky is invaluable. So is John Gray. So is Jeffrey Blankfort. But this in-fighting has got to stop.

How many of the readers here have seen “Let Your Life Be a Friction to Stop the Machine”? Check it out on

Comment on • Who’s Telling the ‘Big Lie’ on Ukraine? by TGP STAFF Thu, 04 Sep 2014 16:42:46 +0000 CONSOLIDATED SELECT COMMENTS FROM ORIGINAL THREAD

Joe on September 2, 2014 at 5:37 pm said:
It would seem that I am not the only one whom has had a lot of questions from the very beginning of this crisis and, to me, I see a narrative being shaped by our media (I still remember the narrative before the Iraq invasion) – which scares me. I do believe that we are getting propaganda from all sides so it is very hard to know what to believe so I think it is very important to question. My questions are as follows:

1) Why did much of the MSM, along with western governments, hide the involvement of neo-fascists/neo-nazis in the initial protests in Kiev? It is well documented the existence of these groups in Western Ukraine going all the way back to Stepan Bandera who aided the Nazis in killing 70,000 Poles and a number of Jews, not too mention statues erected to Stepan Bandera in Western Ukraine, and Stepan Bandera being named the “Hero of Ukraine” by the outgoing President in 2010. The BBC did stories about the rise of Svoboda in 2012 and even the EU Parliament proclaimed the dangers of Svoboda in a December 2012 meeting. Only a small amount of western stories actually speak about the Neo-Nazi influence in Kiev (BBC Newsnight, Salon etc.).

2) Why did the United States warn Yanukovych NOT to use the military against the protesters in Kiev but then went onto support military aggression against the people in Eastern Ukraine? Most of the protesters were peaceful on the Maidan but there were factions of Svoboda and Right Sector that were throwing Molotov Cocktails, taking over government buildings and using live ammunition – the same could be said about the protests in Eastern Ukraine before it erupted into full blown fighting.

3) Why were western governments so quick to acknowledge the legitimacy of a government that overthrew the previous one? I believe in the US it is actually illegal to support a coup regime. Yanukovych was “democratically elected” and yet had to flee after Svoboda and Right Sector stormed Presidential buildings. Subsequently the Ukrainian Government, the Verkhovna Rada, had a vote to “impeach” Yanukovych but failed to get the required 3/4 vote to legally impeach him according to the Ukrainian Constitution, Article 111. So technically Yanukovych, bad guy or not, was still the President.

4) What part did the $5 Billion US Dollars, Victoria Nuland, and the National Endowment have to play in overthrowing the government in Ukraine? The US has been funnelling $5 Billion into Ukraine since 1991. Other countries that the US government has funnelled money into through institutions like the National Endowment for Democracy and USAID are countries like Venezuela where there was an attempted coup in 2002, Egypt where there was a coup last year, as well as operations in Cuba such as creating a Cuban Twitter to try and stir unrest.

5) If Russia is so guilty of everything, then why do we see the US State Department constantly resort to “social media” and evidence from Kiev (which has been debunked a few times over) as proof of Russian involvement in Ukraine? Matt Lee of AP pointed out the US State Department “in-lieu” of information and poked fun by asking if they could point him to a “YouTube video”. Even former US intelligence officials have written a letter to Obama asking him to release any information on Ukraine and to stop resorting to “social media” because it is flimsy.

6) If Russia and the “rebels” are guilty of shooting down MH-17 then why haven’t the US released satellite “exact” photos showing the BUK missile being fired and the downing of the airplane? I mean, the US has the largest spy apparatus on the planet watching Eastern Ukraine like a hawk with a spy satellite directly overhead when it was downed, then why don’t they present those photos – they would show who, what and where? Actually I have been reading some articles on Consortium News by Robert Parry, a Pulitzer Prize Finalist and George Polk Award Winning Journalist that broke the Iran Contra Scandal for AP, which according to Robert’s sources point the finger at the Ukrainian Army and not the “rebels”. Also, it was also curious that Russia and the rebels were blamed for the downing of MH-17 even before any investigation had even begun – that gets my Spidey Sense going.

7) What are the financial interests in Ukraine? I have seen that the IMF has put conditionality on loans based on the inclusion of Eastern Ukraine. Also we have seen the US Vice President’s son take a position on the board of Ukraine’s largest natural gas company along with John Kerry’s family friend. Not too mention the interests of companies such as Monsanto, Chevron, and Shell among others.

8) Could the demonization, and attempted isolation, of Russia be about world economics? Russia has made it no secret that they want the world to replace the US Dollar as the world’s reserve currency and remove the US’s competitive advantage (not too mention all of the trade agreements being made without the US Dollar). In 2009, President Medvedev even went as far as creating a prototype of a proposed new reserve currency. Also, along with the other members of the BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa) they have created a new Development Bank which will open in Shanghai in 2015 and start to lend in 2016. This would put the BRICS Development Bank in direct competition with the IMF, WorldBank, and SWIFT (these institutions ensure western hegemony over the entire world). A BRICS Development Bank would significantly reduce the power of sanctions on any given country because it would be an alternative to the Western Banking model. Also, if the terms for lending are more appealing then IMF austerity and privatization of a countries resources then it would greatly diminish western influence over the world.

I do actually believe that the US/EU pulled off a coup in Ukraine and that is why so much of the narrative is missing in our media. This may not be what you believe but we should at least question what we are seeing especially after the illegal invasion of Iraq where 1/2 Million to 1 Million people were killed based on lies from our governments and the MSM.

Anonymous on September 2, 2014 at 5:55 pm said:
Maybe Gershman and the Washington Post pundits should be shipped to Luhansk or Donetsk and made to suffer through the aerial bombing that the brave people in Novorussiya have been enduring on a daily basis, or arrested and beaten up, if not disappeared, for articulating in public a position different than the line of their friends in Kiev or their Right Sector allies, or be trapped in a building against an angry extremist crowd before being incinerated or shot- and then mocked on social media as Colorado beetles (not unlike the appellation of ‘cockroach’ many extremist Israelis have applied to Palestinians)- or booked on a flight that is secretly intended to be shot down so that it might be blamed on the wrong party for geopolitical purposes.

I’m not suggesting it happen in fact to these bastards, but they have been engaged in a seamy business for too long, and they need to understand the meaning and consequences of what they have advocated, and they need to understand in their gut. Hopefully, then they would have an epiphany.

incontinent reader on September 2, 2014 at 5:57 pm said:
Maybe Gershman and the Washington Post pundits should be shipped to Luhansk or Donetsk and made to suffer through the aerial bombing that the brave people in Novorussiya have been enduring on a daily basis, or arrested and beaten up, if not disappeared, for articulating in public a position different than the line of their friends in Kiev or their Right Sector allies, or be trapped in a building against an angry extremist crowd before being incinerated or shot- and then mocked on social media as Colorado beetles (not unlike the appellation of ‘cockroach’ many extremist Israelis have applied to Palestinians)- or booked on a flight that is secretly intended to be shot down so that it might be blamed on the wrong party for geopolitical purposes.

I’m not suggesting it happen in fact to these bastards, but they have been engaged in a seamy business for too long, and they need to understand the meaning and consequences of what they have advocated, and they need to understand in their gut. Hopefully, then they would have an epiphany.

Abe on September 2, 2014 at 6:00 pm said:
Shadow NATO Comes Out of the Closet

Understanding that their regime is in peril and could even be brought down by the same nationalist forces that they unleashed, Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk are desperately calling to join NATO and have also sent unofficial feelers to Washington about the viability of formal (non-mercenary) ground troops.

The upcoming NATO summit on 4 September is expected to further institutionalize the bloc’s relationship with Ukraine, and it cannot be precluded that some surprises may also be in store. One such example could be Poroshenko pulling a temporary ploy and disowning Crimea in order to get around NATO’s formal territorial dispute prohibition. Regardless of how it turns out, the fact is that the Kiev coup-plotters have finally played their NATO hand and have shown the world that they are dead-set on joining the military bloc. Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk would do well, however, to second-guess the wisdom of working with Washington and instead heed Putin’s advice, remembering that “whatever Americans touch they always end up with Libya or Iraq.”

toby on September 2, 2014 at 7:06 pm said:
Actually if there is a comparison to be made to Hitler…it would be Hillary Clinton, not Putin.

on September 4, 2014 at 1:45 am said:
That is very unkind to Hitler.

on September 4, 2014 at 10:33 am said:
Hilaryous does resemble Hitler in the insanity of opening a multifront war, which ended up destroying his regime, but Hilaryous thinks we should be fronting everywhere, except against our most lethal and vicious enemy, Zionism.

Zachary Smith on September 2, 2014 at 7:15 pm said:
… Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk are desperately calling to join NATO and have also sent unofficial feelers to Washington about the viability of formal (non-mercenary) ground troops.

If NATO allows the Junta Regime to join that organization, I’m going to start worrying a bit more than I am now.

on September 4, 2014 at 10:36 am said:
If Nato tries to include Ukraine, I think Russia will invade and end Ukraine as an independent nation. What else could Russia do, with the existential threat from the monsters from hell.

F. G. Sanford on September 2, 2014 at 7:28 pm said:
In actual fact, the Kiev military forces are being systematically defeated by the Eastern Ukrainian Federalists. The Nazi militia elements are by no means insignificant, and they serve two purposes. The regular army and national guard have demonstrated a profound unwillingness to murder their fellow countrymen resulting in massive desertions and defections. Kiev has resorted to forced conscription of unwilling old men and young boys with no significant combat training to replenish these losses. The battle strategy employed thus far by Kiev is shelling and firebombing villages. The national guard and army are then sent to confront the resistance, which has been formidable, for very good reasons. The regulars are often unwilling to attack, so the purpose of the Nazi militias is (1) to provide a rear formation which is ordered to shoot the regular soldiers and national guard should they attempt to retreat or show reluctance to fight. When the resistance is sufficiently softened, the Nazi elements commence their real work: (2) murdering the survivors, including women and children. The methods they use do not always involve a quick death from a fatal gunshot. Much sport is involved in the infliction of gruesome deaths upon these victims. These activities have inspired fierce resistance, as the alternative is a certain horrible death. Lack of professionalism among these death squads has been at the heart of dramatic defeats and the loss of thousands by death and desertion. NATO is hysterical because victory in the east is no longer a realistic possibility. Soon, the pretext of “Russian aggression” based on the shoot-down of MH-17 will evaporate; critical details will be withheld adding to erosion of NATO credibility. NATO’s ragtag blowhards and braggarts cannot assemble a force capable of confronting Russia’s conventional forces. If they intervene on behalf of the Nazis, the only viable strategy would be U.S. air strikes. Reuters reports that a “Spearhead Force” that could “respond within two days” is under construction by NATO. This should be regarded as desperate propaganda…or outright fantasy. They’re talking about a force of 10,000. Hitler sent millions into the maw of the Russian bear, and only a few hundred thousand came back. A rational strategy would be an independent Eastern Ukraine and an alliance between Germany and Russia to de-Nazify Western Ukraine. War crimes trials should follow. Given the desperation with which NATO opposes any such outcome, one must assume the motivation is rational but immoral…or frankly insane. The current agenda represents rejection of civilization and an invitation to nuclear holocaust. NATO cannot prevail in a conventional war against Russia.

on September 2, 2014 at 9:31 pm said:
The now much despised neo-Nazi militia units have conducted hit-and-run terror attacks, then abandoned the front to the Ukrainian regular army and national guard troops, leaving them to absorb the counterattacks from Donetsk and Luhansk independence forces. From the get go, Kiev’s “anti-terrorist operation” has appeared to be designed to create a counter-insurgency clusterfuck of such magnitude that direct NATO intervention would be welcomed.

Abe on September 2, 2014 at 7:41 pm said:
Kiev Coup is Collapsing

During the entire slaughter of the civilians in the New Republics, not a word of reproach was heard from the US or EU to rein Kiev in… eternal shame on them. When Kiev troops found the self-defense forces more of a match than they expected, they pulled back to shell and punish the civilian areas in return — the tactics of cowards.

The EU only began to finally show some flexibility, not through any real moral concern of the innocent being killed for their poor leadership, but solely due to the blow-back in Europe from the food sanctions. The business community is on the war path, and new concern has been shown for getting the energy Gordian Knot addressed before winter comes.

But the catch there is that Kiev has no intention of paying, as it will be broke when it shells out the $1.5 billion to get the gas pipelines flowing. Gazprom has been working feverishly to increase supply capacity to Europe around Ukraine, which once done, might be a permanent cut off for Ukraine and maybe Poland for their sending fighting units to East Ukraine. And the Poles holding up the Russian Defense Minister’s plane going through their airspace on Friday was beyond stupid. You just can’t make this stuff up!

Kiev is walking the tightrope now. With their economy destroyed, they are hemorrhaging what money is left. They have not provoked the Soviet invasion that the US really wanted, in order to crank up the sanctions wars. And the EU people have now figured out that they were duped by the US — something their leaders should all resign for, because it was an astounding betrayal of their own people. This scenario reminds me of how Israel has subverted the United States through our Congress.

Poroshenko needs both massive Western military intervention and the billions that would come with that. The US would need a “crisis” to pull that off, despite Obama saying that the US has no military option in Ukraine. But desperation can trigger wild gambles.

Comment on • Who’s Telling the ‘Big Lie’ on Ukraine? by Jack Revolutionist, LUV News Thu, 04 Sep 2014 16:33:03 +0000 This morning, NPR did a segment on how Russian speakers in the Baltic states are getting Russian media and it can’t be blocked because they are so close to Russia, so a new radio station will be started to get them the Western (read “corporate”) viewpoint that all Westerners get (shades of Radio Free Europe (RFE), which is all propaganda, all the time). Of course, it would be funded by US taxpayers, as is the propaganda pumped into Cuba (Radio Marti). Russia already gets RFE pumped into it, and RFE also broadcasts into Iraq (got to convince Iraqis the invasion and occupation were for freedom).

There is a fear that somewhere on the planet, people will not get the corporate-viewpoint like that which spews from corporate-funded NPR, so, although there isn’t enough government money to feed hungry American kids, there is no limit to funding propaganda and more is being planned.

I think it’s time to recap what’s happening in Ukraine, because the corporate media are going berserk with propaganda. Turn on your TV to any news program, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, FOX– open any newspaper– NY Times, Washington Post etc., listen to NPR– all of the scumbags are whipping the same lies with the same story line. This is way beyond the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq lie, which is frightening to me.

Why in hell are they doing this?– pushing us toward war with Russia based on bald faced lies? Something is happening that is very big. The ruling Forces of Greed (FOG) have, perhaps, realized they can no longer fix the economy to provide decent jobs for the masses– too much has been sucked up by the rich, and the economy is about to collapse into a hellacious depression– something like that. Outside of the rich, most people haven’t recovered from the 2008 recession, which was a massive transfer of wealth from those who work to those who President Daddy Bush called “the investment class” and a great many millions have adjusted to jobs paying a smaller salary, or unemployment.

Hitler, a corporate fascist like our own ruling FOG, found that the best way out of an economic depression is to distract the masses with a massive war. I wonder if that is what’s happening? Most of the people working in the mainstream press just pass on what they’re given, and have no clue themselves. Following, Robert Parry reviews -Jack Revolutionist