What, if anything, happened in Geneva?
Andrei Raevsky
THE SAKER
Putin and planning staff: Huge responsibility. The ball is in their court. But their opponents are massively ignorant, cynical, and dishonest, not to mention a bit insane. Not exactly the ideal party to conduct peace negotiations with.
There are no official results from the meeting in Geneva yet. The US has promised to give the Russians an official answer in writing within a week. The Russians have declared that they have explained the Russian position to their US counterparts in minute details, leaving no ambiguity. According to Russian sources, the US position was a “diehard/stubborn” one.
Clearly, the War Party in the USA is, at least so far, prevailing. When I listen to the delusional statements of the likes of Blinken, Psaki, Kirby & Co I get the strong feeling that for these people everything is a zero-sum game and that to them an agreement with Russia, any agreement, is simply unthinkable.
If so, then this is all good news. Frankly, it is pretty clear that the War Party has won the day, at least so far, which leaves Russia no other option that to take further unilateral actions which is, I believe, the only way left for Russia to bring the leaders of the West back into the real world.
There are still further talks planned, with the Russia-NATO council and the OSCE. Never say never and maybe a last minute breakthrough is possible, but I personally don’t see how that could happen, not when one of the two parties is absolutely, maniacally, determined to treat the other as some kind of semi-savage inferior race with whom no civilized western leaders will ever negotiate. The western diplomatic toolkit has shrunk to basically the following:
- Exceptionalism, messianism, racism and self-worship.
- Threats and imposition of sanctions for “bad behavior” like a teacher would punish a grade-school kid for being rowdy and not listening to the teacher.
- A total belief in both the West invincibility and invulnerability no matter what the “real reality” actually is.
- A total categorical refusal to admit, even by implication, that the world has profoundly changed and that the Anglosphere does not “rule the waves” anymore.
There is only one thing Russia can do to bring the leaders of the West back to reality: to turn up what I call the “pain dial”.
Russian peacekeeper in Kazakhstan
In the meantime, the Russian military has declared that it hopes to leave Kazakhstan within a week, but only if/when the situation in this country is fully stabilized.
President Tokaev has said that the CSTO forces withdrawal will begin in 48 hours and will last no more than 10 days. I hope that he is right.
However, it will take months for Kazakhstan and Russia to deal with the insurgents, especially in the West and South of Kazakhstan. But that would already be a mopping-up operation which Russia and Kazakhstan can coordinate on a bilateral basis without any need to involve the CSTO.
For the time, we have to wait and see what actually happens in the next few days, things should become much clearer.
—Andrei
AND THESE SELECT COMMENTS (FROM ORIGINAL THREAD)
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That sort of long, drawn-out process seems extremely unlikely to me. Why wouldn’t Russia use the overwhelming military advantage it enjoys at the moment to force the US to give up any pretenses of being a military superpower? How many US aircraft carriers does Russia have to sink in order to get the US to sign whatever security agreement Russia puts in front of it?
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Agree,
As detailed by Larchmonter445 in a previous blog comment, Russia could annihilate whatever military targets it chooses in Ukraine including NATO advisors on the ground – all without sending Russian troops into Ukraine. In comments below, Larchmonter445 writes that, “Russia has to break NATO, that’s the showdown.” Such an overwhelming Russian strike would shock NATO/US deep state leaders back to reality and take Ukraine off the table. Next step – Now are you ready to sign an agreement?
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My concern is that the US may be looking for another “Pearl Harbor” attack to rally the country, and there could be a major conflict that starts in Ukraine and eventually also involve the Chinese. Seems Russia is being drawn in like the Japanese were in WW2, but this one will be much more difficult for the USA. Back then the USSR did the heavy lifting against Germany, and US citizenship was offered to natives in Asia to get them to fight with the US military against Japan. This time, the US will be pretty much alone.
But the mentality in the US is that it was the main force for victory in WW2, and I think they genuinely falsely believe that a hot WW3 would turn out the “same”.
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The swampies in Washington may well be looking for another Pearl Harbor, at which point Biden will order that all the Detroit assembly lines be immediately converted to tank-making and airplane construction.
At which point the Oligarchy that really rules the USA will loudly gulp and say “Err, what assembly lines would those be?”
Biden will be momentarily confused – no real difficulty there – and then thunder that he wants all of the USA’s industrial might focused on Victory! Victory! Victory!
And those same Oligarchs will clear their throat and say “Err, what industrial might are you talking about?”
Biden’s head will be reeling in confusion and he’d stammer out a demand: the USA is a $22Tillion economy, so where does all those trillions of dollars come from?
And the Oligarch’s will break it down for him:
F is for Finance
I is for Insurance
R is for Real (as in Real Estate)
E is for Estate (as in Real Estate)When the Washington swamp-dwellers stand around drinking their Kool Aid and talking about the coming “Pearl Harbor” moment not one of them will understand a fundamental reality: in this re-run they will be playing the role of the Empire of Japan.
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US do have physical production, it is in the range of Germany $6 trillion, and shrinking. No-one in the right mind invest in risky production when F.I.R.E yields order of magnitude bigger profit with, litteraly zero risk for big players.
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Nothing gets done or built until someone first picks up a hammer……
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And drives the first nail….
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Hollywood might refer to the USA as the world’s greatest superpower, but as most of us here in the Vineyard know, that ship sailed a long time ago.
The problem for Putin is not how to win militarily, (they could turn the US continent to glass if it comes to that) — it is what comes next. Naturally Putin is not wishing that. In other words I am sure he and his generals are also very much concerned with winning the peace. It is a balancing act, a dangerous one. He has to provide just enough military force to block any serious aggression, which he is clearly doing.
The US MIC for their part loves threats, they shamelessly amp these in the captured media to hysteria levels – all to keep that trillion dollar budget flowing. They would love Russia to sink a carrier or two in order to scream blue murder. But there are limits, and so they have used incremental pokes at the bear, thinking that the Russians won’t escalate beyond a certain level. And they have shamelessly milked their NATO vassals, using the ‘Russia threat’ as the excuse. It has worked, up to now.
But NATO members are already struggling with declining economies and massive social unrest. I am sure Putin knows that by demonstrating the iron fist in a velvet glove, as he has been, it is only a matter of time when NATO simply implodes, brought about by spiraling costs, lack of commitment by the citizens, and disillusionment with Uncle Schmuel’s greedy hunger without end.
The Russia-China dynamic will prevail, providing the crazies in DC or Kiev are kept in check.
If not, all bets are off.
WT
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It’s difficult being a sane adult who has to deal with an insane child.
Worse when the insane child has thermonuclear, chemical, and biological weapons, and is quite keen to try them out.
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How long IS the Atlantic coast of Ukraine, anyway? Maybe Japan and Korea could join?
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I agree. It’s time for a ‘rub your face in it’ response. Like you do with a bad kitten.
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One should never do that to a kitten. A dog maybe, but not a kitten. Horrible thought.
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Also, cats are more intelligent than ANZ by several orders of magnitude…
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Arguably better armed, too.
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Mutts don’t deserve it either. Man’s best friend. Now neocons on the other hand…
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That is extremely dangerous thinking. How many aircraft carriers to sink? One, and then the world dies.
I am a veteran of the empire’s 1st foreign adventure, Operation Desert Storm. I’ve watched our shenanigans ever since. One absolutely indisputable fact of the US military and US civilians view of the military: they positively cannot STAND casualties. The sinking of a carrier would cause more losses than the entire 20 year “war” in Afghanistan did. More than died in the Normandy landings. The public would not allow peace after such a heinous act as sinking an invincible aircraft carrier!
I live in Florida. People around here wanted to “nuke” Iran for having the audacity to launch missiles at our Iraqi base. They also saw no problem in the murder of the Solimani “terrorist.” The loss of a carrier would elicit a nuclear reply, I am certain.
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Mr Orlov has written an essay where he shows how targeting your infrastructure could cripple your war machine without inflicting many casualties.
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Can you give the article title, please.
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It’s paywalled.
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I agree. People who advocate a unilateral Russian attack on US military assets – especially major ones – are idiots. They forget that the US has any number of missile submarines which can – despite the S-500 and S-550 – devastate Russia in either a first or second strike. The Russia air defenses are formidable, but there is no such thing as “total coverage” of or “sealing” a country the size of Russia or even its major cities.
Russia’s previous ABM systems cover Moscow, whereas the US systems cover its missile launch sites. But all that means is that the US has undoubtedly targeted so many missiles on Moscow that at least a couple will get through no matter how many S-500 and S-550 surround it.
Putin is not an idiot. He’s not going to attack significant US military assets short of a declaration of war by the US. He won’t even attack locations in NATO short of a declaration of war by NATO. There are a lot of other things he can do is re-establish MAD with regard to the US and NATO – and he’s doing them. That’s all he has to – re-establish MAD to insure that neither the US or NATO will dare to attack or even threaten Russia.
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The question is – how is he going to push NATO back to its starting line without doing something that really threatens/harms NATO? MAD exists at the moment but that’s far from what Russia is asking for. He can either scare NATO to the point that NATO realises that the game is over or concede a strategic defeat and see Russia gradually dismembered.
Thank you
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How is Putin going to push NATO back to its starting line?
The obvious answer is to confront Washington with the same danger, and then offer to trade it one-for-one.
So, Tu-160 bombers in Cuba. Khinzal-armed Mig-31 fighters in Venezuela. Weapons that can decapitate Washington, and based in the USA’s back yard.
The Americans will have a fit. Go completely ape-shit. And then the Russians will say “oh, those? Sure, we’ll remove ours if you remove yours”.
Because without that card then Washington will simply play hard-ball, because, well, why wouldn’t they?
Think back to the Cuba Missile Crisis in 1962: the Americans had *already* based their nukes in Turkey, and were completely and utterly headless of any complaints from the USSR regarding those deployments.
Then, suddenly, holy crap, nukes in Cuba? Unacceptable! Utterly unacceptable!
Khrushchev: Oh, those? OK, we’ll remove ours if you remove yours.
Kennedy: Grrrrrrrrrrr OK.
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Putin will take out the command and control center in Colorado and somewhere else he already told the Americans what parts he’s going to hit. 3 locations.
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The loss of a carrier would elicit a nuclear reply, I am certain.
It absolutely would not. The American public may be politically uneducated but they do know the outcome of a nuclear war with Russia. Even the most uninformed of them say things such as, “Russia is a gas station with nukes.” So they know it will be ugly for America. The thing about entitlement is that it demands respect it does not deserve. Entitlement will make demands until it meets a pushback it recognizes as detrimental to its existence. At that point it will start becoming rational since there is very little that brings clarity to a coddled, entitled people like the possibility of annihilation. At that point the divisions in America will become apparent. The Reps will blame the Dems for such a situation and vice versa. Regardless both parties will recognize the need to negotiate with Russia whilst blaming each other. It will not go nuclear.
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“The American public may be politically uneducated but they do know the outcome of a nuclear war with Russia. Even the most uninformed of them say things such as, “Russia is a gas station with nukes.” So they know it will be ugly for America.”
…and there you’re precisely wrong. Part of the political miseducation of Americans is the belief that Russian nukes are rusty old Soviet scrap that the USA could destroy in a first strike, and that such a first strike can be executed without negative consequences (either militarily or environmentally) to the USA.
The days when Americans feared destruction in a nuclear war are long gone — I’d place the date sometime around 1991.
Our only hope is that there are still a few Americans inside the Beltway with influence and a modicum of intelligence and sanity. But I’ve long since decided that hope is for chumps. (Certainly Obama taught us that much!)
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I believe that the sinking of one of America’s invincible aircraft carriers will wake Americans up to the fact that Russia’s weapons are not that rusty and ineffective after all. If the mighty aircraft carrier is taken down what else may the Russians take down.
I think you comment on RT under the same name. I posted there as well under USBS. Because of the continuous harassment by the RT moderators I decided to delete my Disqus account. I have noticed that less and less pro Russia people post there.-
To sink an american carrier unprovoked would be idiotic, the US already believes it can win in a first strike scenario and would not hesitate to go nuclear. The cubans never attacked any Americans, but the AZ was prepared to go nuclear over just the placement of nukes on cuban soil that could reach the US. The empire has become far, far more intolerant, entitled and belligerent since then.
The best way for the RF to respond would be to do what the US itself does. Supply allies and AZ enemies like iran, yemen, hizbollah, venuzuala, cuba etc its a long list, with an array of weaponry that threatens the US, and other weapons that would make any AZ attack on them to costly to contemplate. This would have to be carefully thought out and implemented . Its the only way to neuter the empire short of a hot war.
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I read the answer today in zerohedge.
Capital police hunting for lone wolves etc in the ranks. Police officers who are not empire/nuke war etc loyal. The biggest fear today in America is, Americas itself.
That fear was exposed today. This is a Saker educational “moment”, or should that read…. momentous?I think the brutal interment of the Jan6 citizens without charge has up set a lot of uniform people.
I truly believe the vast majority of US uniformed police and mil are normal people.
Like PhD cosmologists if you don’t pretend to believe comets are a pile of lose rubble and a dirty snowball you ain’t got a job anywhere.
There are more guns in America than citizens and more ammo than Fed bucks.
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I would not be so sure about a strong US response, why? Because Russia compared to other countries is capable to inflict great damage to the Us as well. I remember this one: Americans are not afraid of war but are afraid if dying. Russians are afraid of war but not afraid of dying.
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I concur. That would go nuclear.
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Fear not CWK.
God will sent a comet, (they are electrically charged, huge rocks.) 5 miles up the positive and negative charged comet explodes. Every igadget and nuke cuts out/burns out….and Amish to the Empire, the EMP as landed.
…… “I could be right, I could be wrong but it could be the “Big Bear,” people are looking for.”
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There are 2 time factors in play. Re economy, time sides with RCI, every day the Anglozionist empire gets nearer to ponzi implosion. Militarily, I have no doubt that AS SOON AS the anglozionists have hypersonic weapons, they will attack.
Russia needs to force the Anglozionist empire back before it acquires hypersonic weapons. Perhaps the route is to expel the AZ from the Middle East. This would involve strengthening Iran’s defensive capabilities, strengthening Yemens defensive capabilities against air attack so AZ adventurers face a price, speeding up Syrian defensive reconstruction. All with greater Chinese assistance. Increasing the pace of these moves will provide a reality check.
Finally there will need to be a military demonstration of capability, and this will need to be in Ukraine where the red line is being crossed. Perhaps the next well publicised Ukronazi aggression will need to be dealt with? Finally, Russia will need to address the playground bully tactics of threatening immense consequences ‘if you dare to hurt us back’, ie ‘NATO lives are lost’ , or ‘US lives are lost’. The Afghans and Iranians have shown this to be the BS bluster that all bullies use. -
They need not sink any aircraft carrier, the only think they have to do is land 85th and 106th in Sofia and Varna-Chaika base on Black see and this is where the story ends for NATO. It is NATO achille and the check mate for Russia. Ukraine is misdirection for Ashkenazim that control State Department like, Blinken and Wendy Sherman. .
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Do you know Yakov Kedmi?
I listen occasionally to what he has to say to his russophone audience in Russia and Israel. Regarding the stance of Bulgaria as a NATO member (I do not know to what authority he was referring) he said interesting things in his yesterday’s interview by Vladimir Solovyov. It would appear there are active lines of communication, to not say coordination, between Bulgaria and Russia.
To my knowledge there are in Bulgaria four joint BG-US military bases and probably (I’m not sure about that) a NATO command centre in Sofia.
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Dmitry Orlov, they only have to sink one US aircraft carrier.
Shares in MIC companies will sink like a stone.
And take the whole stock market with it.
Who will buy or fund 3rd rate weapon systems? -
The AngloZionists will not yield. Russia has not revealed what it’s response to NATO encroachment will be, but Putin would not level an ultimatum without a planned comprehensive plan of action that will impose costs on NATO countries, Putin does not bluff. I can imagine things like nuclear missiles in Syria, with Hezbollah in Lebanon, and in Iran. Improved qualitative and quantitative nuclear response time against Western Europe, the North American mainland, Baltics, and perhaps all NATO participants, declaring NATO a hostile threat. The West would have to contend with nuclear war going from what they think is a winnable first strike scenario to MAD on a hair trigger. The AngloZionists will sanction Russia on the SWIFT payment system which the world now knows they have weaponized. I would bet Russia and China have discussed this and ways to leverage that against them by accelerating dollar destruction as a reserve currency. There would also be stepped up proxy military engagements, particularly in the middle east, with Iran spearheading them and immediate responses to color revolution attacks like what just happened in Kazakhstan. As for strategic assassinations that could go tit for tat too, not only the Mossad/CIA can play that game. Whatever Putin does will not be evident all at once, he plays the long and comprehensive game, the consequences will emerge over time and by degrees. It is clear that Russia and China are now on the offensive. Israel sits smack dab in the middle of the Afro-Eurasian “world island” and no doubt the Zionists believe it is their God given right to own and rule the world from this spot. They are very much salient amonst the decision makers Putin has alluded to, and I don’t see the Zionist ambitions coming to fruition.
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Agree on economic measures. At the sam etime, given that:
– Empire’s military forces have alredy reached Russian door step,
– The only language Empire seems to understands nowdays is brutal force and
– Likely-to-be-true Kremlin’s assessment that Russia has never been so much ahead of Empire in overall conventional military power as it is today
I believe some military measures will be taken as well. Short-term measures and long-term measures. Limited in scope/time. For example:
– Destroy NATO installations in Ukraine, maybe also in Poland/Romania or even in space. In an spectacular manner, everyne to see, but ideally with zero human casualties. The goal would be to prevent immediate threat of future hypersonic missile infrastructure and to force European countries start worring about their own security.
– Deploy strategical bombarders and missiles in US softbelly. Even maybe deploy terrifing underwater nucler drone(s) off US shore.Makes any sense?
(Sorry for my poor English)-
Yes, makes sense – crystal clear.
Don’t worry, your English is up to snuff.
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Any ending is better than a mending.
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Better an end with horror than a horror without end.
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That sort of long, drawn-out process seems extremely unlikely to me. Why wouldn’t Russia use the overwhelming military advantage it enjoys at the moment to force the US to give up any pretenses of being a military superpower? How many US aircraft carriers does Russia have to sink in order to get the US to sign whatever security agreement Russia puts in front of it?
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Agree,
As detailed by Larchmonter445 in a previous blog comment, Russia could annihilate whatever military targets it chooses in Ukraine including NATO advisors on the ground – all without sending Russian troops into Ukraine. In comments below, Larchmonter445 writes that, “Russia has to break NATO, that’s the showdown.” Such an overwhelming Russian strike would shock NATO/US deep state leaders back to reality and take Ukraine off the table. Next step – Now are you ready to sign an agreement?
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My concern is that the US may be looking for another “Pearl Harbor” attack to rally the country, and there could be a major conflict that starts in Ukraine and eventually also involve the Chinese. Seems Russia is being drawn in like the Japanese were in WW2, but this one will be much more difficult for the USA. Back then the USSR did the heavy lifting against Germany, and US citizenship was offered to natives in Asia to get them to fight with the US military against Japan. This time, the US will be pretty much alone.
But the mentality in the US is that it was the main force for victory in WW2, and I think they genuinely falsely believe that a hot WW3 would turn out the “same”.
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The swampies in Washington may well be looking for another Pearl Harbor, at which point Biden will order that all the Detroit assembly lines be immediately converted to tank-making and airplane construction.
At which point the Oligarchy that really rules the USA will loudly gulp and say “Err, what assembly lines would those be?”
Biden will be momentarily confused – no real difficulty there – and then thunder that he wants all of the USA’s industrial might focused on Victory! Victory! Victory!
And those same Oligarchs will clear their throat and say “Err, what industrial might are you talking about?”
Biden’s head will be reeling in confusion and he’d stammer out a demand: the USA is a $22Tillion economy, so where does all those trillions of dollars come from?
And the Oligarch’s will break it down for him:
F is for Finance
I is for Insurance
R is for Real (as in Real Estate)
E is for Estate (as in Real Estate)When the Washington swamp-dwellers stand around drinking their Kool Aid and talking about the coming “Pearl Harbor” moment not one of them will understand a fundamental reality: in this re-run they will be playing the role of the Empire of Japan.
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US do have physical production, it is in the range of Germany $6 trillion, and shrinking. No-one in the right mind invest in risky production when F.I.R.E yields order of magnitude bigger profit with, litteraly zero risk for big players.
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Nothing gets done or built until someone first picks up a hammer……
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And drives the first nail….
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Hollywood might refer to the USA as the world’s greatest superpower, but as most of us here in the Vineyard know, that ship sailed a long time ago.
The problem for Putin is not how to win militarily, (they could turn the US continent to glass if it comes to that) — it is what comes next. Naturally Putin is not wishing that. In other words I am sure he and his generals are also very much concerned with winning the peace. It is a balancing act, a dangerous one. He has to provide just enough military force to block any serious aggression, which he is clearly doing.
The US MIC for their part loves threats, they shamelessly amp these in the captured media to hysteria levels – all to keep that trillion dollar budget flowing. They would love Russia to sink a carrier or two in order to scream blue murder. But there are limits, and so they have used incremental pokes at the bear, thinking that the Russians won’t escalate beyond a certain level. And they have shamelessly milked their NATO vassals, using the ‘Russia threat’ as the excuse. It has worked, up to now.
But NATO members are already struggling with declining economies and massive social unrest. I am sure Putin knows that by demonstrating the iron fist in a velvet glove, as he has been, it is only a matter of time when NATO simply implodes, brought about by spiraling costs, lack of commitment by the citizens, and disillusionment with Uncle Schmuel’s greedy hunger without end.
The Russia-China dynamic will prevail, providing the crazies in DC or Kiev are kept in check.
If not, all bets are off.
WT
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It’s difficult being a sane adult who has to deal with an insane child.
Worse when the insane child has thermonuclear, chemical, and biological weapons, and is quite keen to try them out.
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How long IS the Atlantic coast of Ukraine, anyway? Maybe Japan and Korea could join?
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I agree. It’s time for a ‘rub your face in it’ response. Like you do with a bad kitten.
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One should never do that to a kitten. A dog maybe, but not a kitten. Horrible thought.
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Also, cats are more intelligent than ANZ by several orders of magnitude…
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Arguably better armed, too.
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Mutts don’t deserve it either. Man’s best friend. Now neocons on the other hand…
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That is extremely dangerous thinking. How many aircraft carriers to sink? One, and then the world dies.
I am a veteran of the empire’s 1st foreign adventure, Operation Desert Storm. I’ve watched our shenanigans ever since. One absolutely indisputable fact of the US military and US civilians view of the military: they positively cannot STAND casualties. The sinking of a carrier would cause more losses than the entire 20 year “war” in Afghanistan did. More than died in the Normandy landings. The public would not allow peace after such a heinous act as sinking an invincible aircraft carrier!
I live in Florida. People around here wanted to “nuke” Iran for having the audacity to launch missiles at our Iraqi base. They also saw no problem in the murder of the Solimani “terrorist.” The loss of a carrier would elicit a nuclear reply, I am certain.
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Mr Orlov has written an essay where he shows how targeting your infrastructure could cripple your war machine without inflicting many casualties.
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Can you give the article title, please.
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It’s paywalled.
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I agree. People who advocate a unilateral Russian attack on US military assets – especially major ones – are idiots. They forget that the US has any number of missile submarines which can – despite the S-500 and S-550 – devastate Russia in either a first or second strike. The Russia air defenses are formidable, but there is no such thing as “total coverage” of or “sealing” a country the size of Russia or even its major cities.
Russia’s previous ABM systems cover Moscow, whereas the US systems cover its missile launch sites. But all that means is that the US has undoubtedly targeted so many missiles on Moscow that at least a couple will get through no matter how many S-500 and S-550 surround it.
Putin is not an idiot. He’s not going to attack significant US military assets short of a declaration of war by the US. He won’t even attack locations in NATO short of a declaration of war by NATO. There are a lot of other things he can do is re-establish MAD with regard to the US and NATO – and he’s doing them. That’s all he has to – re-establish MAD to insure that neither the US or NATO will dare to attack or even threaten Russia.
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The question is – how is he going to push NATO back to its starting line without doing something that really threatens/harms NATO? MAD exists at the moment but that’s far from what Russia is asking for. He can either scare NATO to the point that NATO realises that the game is over or concede a strategic defeat and see Russia gradually dismembered.
Thank you
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How is Putin going to push NATO back to its starting line?
The obvious answer is to confront Washington with the same danger, and then offer to trade it one-for-one.
So, Tu-160 bombers in Cuba. Khinzal-armed Mig-31 fighters in Venezuela. Weapons that can decapitate Washington, and based in the USA’s back yard.
The Americans will have a fit. Go completely ape-shit. And then the Russians will say “oh, those? Sure, we’ll remove ours if you remove yours”.
Because without that card then Washington will simply play hard-ball, because, well, why wouldn’t they?
Think back to the Cuba Missile Crisis in 1962: the Americans had *already* based their nukes in Turkey, and were completely and utterly headless of any complaints from the USSR regarding those deployments.
Then, suddenly, holy crap, nukes in Cuba? Unacceptable! Utterly unacceptable!
Khrushchev: Oh, those? OK, we’ll remove ours if you remove yours.
Kennedy: Grrrrrrrrrrr OK.
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Putin will take out the command and control center in Colorado and somewhere else he already told the Americans what parts he’s going to hit. 3 locations.
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The loss of a carrier would elicit a nuclear reply, I am certain.
It absolutely would not. The American public may be politically uneducated but they do know the outcome of a nuclear war with Russia. Even the most uninformed of them say things such as, “Russia is a gas station with nukes.” So they know it will be ugly for America. The thing about entitlement is that it demands respect it does not deserve. Entitlement will make demands until it meets a pushback it recognizes as detrimental to its existence. At that point it will start becoming rational since there is very little that brings clarity to a coddled, entitled people like the possibility of annihilation. At that point the divisions in America will become apparent. The Reps will blame the Dems for such a situation and vice versa. Regardless both parties will recognize the need to negotiate with Russia whilst blaming each other. It will not go nuclear.
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“The American public may be politically uneducated but they do know the outcome of a nuclear war with Russia. Even the most uninformed of them say things such as, “Russia is a gas station with nukes.” So they know it will be ugly for America.”
…and there you’re precisely wrong. Part of the political miseducation of Americans is the belief that Russian nukes are rusty old Soviet scrap that the USA could destroy in a first strike, and that such a first strike can be executed without negative consequences (either militarily or environmentally) to the USA.
The days when Americans feared destruction in a nuclear war are long gone — I’d place the date sometime around 1991.
Our only hope is that there are still a few Americans inside the Beltway with influence and a modicum of intelligence and sanity. But I’ve long since decided that hope is for chumps. (Certainly Obama taught us that much!)
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I believe that the sinking of one of America’s invincible aircraft carriers will wake Americans up to the fact that Russia’s weapons are not that rusty and ineffective after all. If the mighty aircraft carrier is taken down what else may the Russians take down.
I think you comment on RT under the same name. I posted there as well under USBS. Because of the continuous harassment by the RT moderators I decided to delete my Disqus account. I have noticed that less and less pro Russia people post there.-
To sink an american carrier unprovoked would be idiotic, the US already believes it can win in a first strike scenario and would not hesitate to go nuclear. The cubans never attacked any Americans, but the AZ was prepared to go nuclear over just the placement of nukes on cuban soil that could reach the US. The empire has become far, far more intolerant, entitled and belligerent since then.
The best way for the RF to respond would be to do what the US itself does. Supply allies and AZ enemies like iran, yemen, hizbollah, venuzuala, cuba etc its a long list, with an array of weaponry that threatens the US, and other weapons that would make any AZ attack on them to costly to contemplate. This would have to be carefully thought out and implemented . Its the only way to neuter the empire short of a hot war.
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I read the answer today in zerohedge.
Capital police hunting for lone wolves etc in the ranks. Police officers who are not empire/nuke war etc loyal. The biggest fear today in America is, Americas itself.
That fear was exposed today. This is a Saker educational “moment”, or should that read…. momentous?I think the brutal interment of the Jan6 citizens without charge has up set a lot of uniform people.
I truly believe the vast majority of US uniformed police and mil are normal people.
Like PhD cosmologists if you don’t pretend to believe comets are a pile of lose rubble and a dirty snowball you ain’t got a job anywhere.
There are more guns in America than citizens and more ammo than Fed bucks.
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I would not be so sure about a strong US response, why? Because Russia compared to other countries is capable to inflict great damage to the Us as well. I remember this one: Americans are not afraid of war but are afraid if dying. Russians are afraid of war but not afraid of dying.
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I concur. That would go nuclear.
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Fear not CWK.
God will sent a comet, (they are electrically charged, huge rocks.) 5 miles up the positive and negative charged comet explodes. Every igadget and nuke cuts out/burns out….and Amish to the Empire, the EMP as landed.
…… “I could be right, I could be wrong but it could be the “Big Bear,” people are looking for.”
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There are 2 time factors in play. Re economy, time sides with RCI, every day the Anglozionist empire gets nearer to ponzi implosion. Militarily, I have no doubt that AS SOON AS the anglozionists have hypersonic weapons, they will attack.
Russia needs to force the Anglozionist empire back before it acquires hypersonic weapons. Perhaps the route is to expel the AZ from the Middle East. This would involve strengthening Iran’s defensive capabilities, strengthening Yemens defensive capabilities against air attack so AZ adventurers face a price, speeding up Syrian defensive reconstruction. All with greater Chinese assistance. Increasing the pace of these moves will provide a reality check.
Finally there will need to be a military demonstration of capability, and this will need to be in Ukraine where the red line is being crossed. Perhaps the next well publicised Ukronazi aggression will need to be dealt with? Finally, Russia will need to address the playground bully tactics of threatening immense consequences ‘if you dare to hurt us back’, ie ‘NATO lives are lost’ , or ‘US lives are lost’. The Afghans and Iranians have shown this to be the BS bluster that all bullies use. -
They need not sink any aircraft carrier, the only think they have to do is land 85th and 106th in Sofia and Varna-Chaika base on Black see and this is where the story ends for NATO. It is NATO achille and the check mate for Russia. Ukraine is misdirection for Ashkenazim that control State Department like, Blinken and Wendy Sherman. .
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Do you know Yakov Kedmi?
I listen occasionally to what he has to say to his russophone audience in Russia and Israel. Regarding the stance of Bulgaria as a NATO member (I do not know to what authority he was referring) he said interesting things in his yesterday’s interview by Vladimir Solovyov. It would appear there are active lines of communication, to not say coordination, between Bulgaria and Russia.
To my knowledge there are in Bulgaria four joint BG-US military bases and probably (I’m not sure about that) a NATO command centre in Sofia.
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Dmitry Orlov, they only have to sink one US aircraft carrier.
Shares in MIC companies will sink like a stone.
And take the whole stock market with it.
Who will buy or fund 3rd rate weapon systems? -
The AngloZionists will not yield. Russia has not revealed what it’s response to NATO encroachment will be, but Putin would not level an ultimatum without a planned comprehensive plan of action that will impose costs on NATO countries, Putin does not bluff. I can imagine things like nuclear missiles in Syria, with Hezbollah in Lebanon, and in Iran. Improved qualitative and quantitative nuclear response time against Western Europe, the North American mainland, Baltics, and perhaps all NATO participants, declaring NATO a hostile threat. The West would have to contend with nuclear war going from what they think is a winnable first strike scenario to MAD on a hair trigger. The AngloZionists will sanction Russia on the SWIFT payment system which the world now knows they have weaponized. I would bet Russia and China have discussed this and ways to leverage that against them by accelerating dollar destruction as a reserve currency. There would also be stepped up proxy military engagements, particularly in the middle east, with Iran spearheading them and immediate responses to color revolution attacks like what just happened in Kazakhstan. As for strategic assassinations that could go tit for tat too, not only the Mossad/CIA can play that game. Whatever Putin does will not be evident all at once, he plays the long and comprehensive game, the consequences will emerge over time and by degrees. It is clear that Russia and China are now on the offensive. Israel sits smack dab in the middle of the Afro-Eurasian “world island” and no doubt the Zionists believe it is their God given right to own and rule the world from this spot. They are very much salient amonst the decision makers Putin has alluded to, and I don’t see the Zionist ambitions coming to fruition.
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Agree on economic measures. At the sam etime, given that:
– Empire’s military forces have alredy reached Russian door step,
– The only language Empire seems to understands nowdays is brutal force and
– Likely-to-be-true Kremlin’s assessment that Russia has never been so much ahead of Empire in overall conventional military power as it is today
I believe some military measures will be taken as well. Short-term measures and long-term measures. Limited in scope/time. For example:
– Destroy NATO installations in Ukraine, maybe also in Poland/Romania or even in space. In an spectacular manner, everyne to see, but ideally with zero human casualties. The goal would be to prevent immediate threat of future hypersonic missile infrastructure and to force European countries start worring about their own security.
– Deploy strategical bombarders and missiles in US softbelly. Even maybe deploy terrifing underwater nucler drone(s) off US shore.Makes any sense?
(Sorry for my poor English)-
Yes, makes sense – crystal clear.
Don’t worry, your English is up to snuff.
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Any ending is better than a mending.
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Better an end with horror than a horror without end.
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Just posted an article in the Ryabkov brief media page, a report from RI Novosti where the NYT declared it was “a kind of victory for the Kremlin, as the issue of expansion comes to the fore, which has long irritated Putin.”
https://ria.ru/20220111/peregovory-1767370089.html
So, “allowing” Russia to vent Putin’s frustrations with NATO’s expansion was “a kind of victory,” for the Kremlin, according to the NYT.
The “rowdy, grade-school kid” was allowed to speak.
The arrogance.
Lone Wolf
you misunderstand the ambiguous NYT article. I believe that the media have been given the order to slowly change course.
Hello Thomas,
I agree with you. I searched the Washington Post, Bloomberg and Reuters earlier this morning and there was not one peep about yesterday´s meeting. Something happened.
Regards,
John
the same deadly silence in the Frankfurter Allgemeine Ztg. on 01/11/22
Hello bystander,
I checked again this morning and still not a word from those guys. If that doesn´t show some sort of collusion, then I don´t know what does. Maybe, they did get the message loud and clear.
regards,
John
Arrogance indeed. Putin is worth all of them put together. Were he running this country we would not be in the mess we are in.
I for one fully expect that the talks will achieve nothing useful whatever in resolving Russia’s concerns.
Saker writes:
Agree completely.
When Ryabkov told the press conference that he had patiently explained to the US team that “Russia has no intention of invading Ukraine” my immediate reaction was ‘Oh no, why is Russia on the back foot, having to defend its position from criticism again?’
But then I realised, he must have been totally exasperated, he was talking to brainwashed muppets, utterly filled with hubris and Hollywood’s propaganda. At that moment I knew the talks were simply for Russia a “going through the motions” exercise.
Putin and his Kremlin know that they must force the hand of the deep state and its oligarchs who control the western powers that it does not pay to ignore Russia’s proposals/demands.
I do not expect a short military war, rather a lengthy economic war of attrition, with Russia and China applying an ever tighter squeeze.
Europe will freeze this winter, and next. Russian airspace will become either more expensive, or closed to western airlines altogether. The digital yuan will become more ubiquitous, the BRI will continue to grow apace, etc.
We are seeing the final fruits of decades of deterioration in western education and focus. It’s going to be a very bumpy ride.
WT